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| Author |
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Wes Newell
Guest
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 Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 11:34 pm Post subject: Re: AMD future |
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On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 08:18:50 -0500, dgk wrote:
| Quote: | There are lots of folks who hate Microsoft because it is cool to hate
Microsoft. Lots of very smart people work for MS and make fine
software. Sure there are bugs. I write software and I mess up
sometimes too.
And there's lots of people that hate MS because of their business |
practices and realize what they are trying to do in the long run. There is
a way to fight back though.
http://www.opensource.org/advocacy/faq.php
--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.html |
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Wes Newell
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 11:40 pm Post subject: Re: AMD future |
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On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 10:59:12 -0500, The Spectre wrote:
| Quote: | Well I think I am going to just wait a few months and see how this plays out
in Q1 of 2004. Truth is both companies highend chips are way too expensive
vs thier 2nd or third fastest. I really do want AMD to win out on this. Like
someone else said if it were not for AMD we would all be paying way to much
right now. However, that said IMHO AMD has got to get well past the 2Ghz
barrier in thier chips as Intel approaches the 4Gz mark.
A 2GHz cpu executes a certain instruction in 6 cycles. |
A 4GHz cpu executes the same instruction in 16 cycles.
Which is faster, the 2Ghz cpu or the 4GHz cpu?
CPU speed is only relevent using the same core.
--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.html |
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rstlne
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 12:27 am Post subject: Re: AMD future |
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| Quote: | Some of prefer NOT to pay to run beta (OR alpha) software,
and help MS get bigger and nastier.
|
One can tell you never ran beta MS software, It's usually one of 2 things
1) utter crap
2) much better than the final release
the early beta's of 98 were great, Best peice of software I have ever seen
since dos, They havent made "giant" leaps from one platform to another like
they did from 95 to 98
but that's just me |
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dgk
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 12:31 am Post subject: Re: AMD future |
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On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 17:34:29 GMT, Wes Newell <w.newell@SOSverizon.net>
wrote:
| Quote: | On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 08:18:50 -0500, dgk wrote:
There are lots of folks who hate Microsoft because it is cool to hate
Microsoft. Lots of very smart people work for MS and make fine
software. Sure there are bugs. I write software and I mess up
sometimes too.
And there's lots of people that hate MS because of their business
practices and realize what they are trying to do in the long run. There is
a way to fight back though.
http://www.opensource.org/advocacy/faq.php
|
Quick, fill me in. What is the evil empire up to? Microsoft is trying
to make a reasonable profit by selling software that works fine for
the vast majority of users. They have a vision of what they would like
to see the world do with computers and have Microsoft play a critical
role. Reasonable for any corporation. Ever since Delaware sold us out,
corporations exist for the benefit of the corporation***.
Open source is fine. But you something, it leads to real headaches.
When someone calls me up to ask why something is working funky, at
least I don't have to ask what they've done to their kernel. Sure,
there are enough versions of Windows to drive me crazy. What do you
think it's going to be like for help desks when everyone is
recompiling and changing stuff? Just great. RedHat 9? and you did what
to the kernel? And you recompiled what?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
***
You want to talk about evil empires. Until corporations were formed,
folks polled money, made profits, and took a big risk that they were
scr**ed if ventures failed. Then came the Dutch East India Company,
the world's first corporation. With this magic, folks raised even more
money, but the risks shifted to everyone else. If it failed, the
corporate officers were protected. In exchange for this tremendous
boon, the Corporate Charter was issued by the government and one
requirement was that the corporation operate in a way that benefited
society.
And that is the way it stayed, until the state of Delaware realized a
great new way to make money. They would issue corporate charters, but
without that nasty requirement that corporations benefit the public.
That's why everything is incorporated in Delaware. No burdensome
social requirements, and everyone else had to follow suit. So, when
you hear someone say that corporations only are responsible to the
shareholder, that is true. Now. Thank Delaware. |
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RD
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 12:41 am Post subject: Re: AMD future |
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Hi Dgk,
"dgk" <sonicechoes-spamless@hot-nospamp-mail.com> wrote in message
news:jik6uvkvio2lkma5prvtv20lh65fkf9g7f@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 18:42:52 +0000 (UTC), "RD" <rd@dragon.net> wrote:
Hi Peter,
"Peter van der Goes" <p_vandergoes@mars.cox.pluto> wrote in message
news:YDCEb.15787$HQ.14212@okepread02...
"Never anonymous Bud" <newskat@katxyzkave.net> wrote in message
news:9485uvcm841n6r7tqsolbj3011upumgcjj@4ax.com...
Some of prefer NOT to pay to run beta (OR alpha) software,
and help MS get bigger and nastier.
To each his own, Bud.
I assume from your characterization of MS that you've never had the
pleasure
of dealing with Oracle Corporation.
Never mind the MS dislike, I've never seen the need to PAY anyone in
order
to do THEIR beta or alpha testing for them, in my view it should be the
other
way around.. Were it not for MS's clout, I very much doubt any firm or
individual would either... Near monopolies tend to bend folks attiudes..
While I've been happy to beta test for someone, without pay as such,
I sure as hell didnt pay to do it:-)
Was someone being asked to pay to beta test? I guess I missed that. I
like playing with MS Beta software so I can get an idea of where
programming is headed but no, I wouldn't pay for it.
|
Erm, ask any company that signs up with MS.. They pay.. They also
pay for the corporate beta setup.. so those so called free preview cd's
aint quite so free:-)
| Quote: | Or is that just some clever talk that the software is so unready that
it is like beta? I don't find that. The OS works fine. The apps work
fine. For me. Maybe others have problems but stuff works for me.
|
The OS's dont work fine for everyone, nor do all their other programs.
Care to think back over the past year and consider how many patches
have been released for MS's OS's? Mainly to fix flaws that should have
been fixed prior to release. Hell even down to mediaplayer:-) security
fixes, hot fixes...
No software is perfect, but some sure is quite buggy:-) And if one
considers the numbers employed and the dosh spent on WinX/Y/Z
its a pity that it doesnt come out just a little less in need of fixing
every
week or two.
As far as corporations go, MS has a shady rep, its bullied other
firms, bamboozled governments and individuals and trodden
roughshod over the idea of fair play. Fine bigger bucks for
those on the MS bandwagon, but in the end its the customer
that pays.. If MS is giving you free software, hooray for you,
its not giving it away to everyone.. Joe and Jane Blogs have
to pay for it.. And when the OS costs more than the cpu its
running on, demands megabytes of memory and gigabytes
of hard drive space, and an ever increasing speed in order
to crawl along running 1 app... its crap.
If the code were written tighter, you wouldnt need 1024Mb
of DDR 400 in order to be sure you wouldnt be down in
the memory stakes within the year, wouldnt need 80Gig
plus hard drives running thier little sox off in order to
provide sufficient storage for the OS and a few apps
Care to cast your mind back to the time before Windows?
how the media went into a frenezy of the 'bloated' size
of MS Dos 4? And were only partially satisfied when
MS Dos6 arrived, only to find it had to be 'updated'
to remove the code MS stole from Stacker for drive
compression:-) But at least, stolen code and all it
ran on machines that couldnt do more than 30MHz,
with 1 or 2 megs of ram, on hard drives of less than
40Mb, and did just fine for all sorts of purposes,
from bookkeeping to comms. And it didnt cost £200
either:-) Funny thing is the academic community had
been doing just fine on JANET before windows,
and the WWW:-) So had big business, and we
didnt have spam comming out of our ears:-) Or
have to pay some more to try and stop it..
Microsoft isnt gods answer to software developement:-)
Its a money grubbing, opposition squeezing giant that would
love to run the country it originated in:-) It wont of course
ever do any such thing, if it did, it would pretty soon get
the hell out, it wouldnt want to spend so much profit on
stuff like defense and public services:-)
RD |
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RD
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 12:52 am Post subject: Re: AMD future |
|
|
Hi Peter.
"Peter van der Goes" <p_vandergoes@mars.cox.pluto> wrote in message
news:xvKEb.15846$HQ.10313@okepread02...
| Quote: |
"RD" <rd@dragon.net> wrote in message
news:brvgrc$s9s$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
Hi Peter,
"Peter van der Goes" <p_vandergoes@mars.cox.pluto> wrote in message
news:YDCEb.15787$HQ.14212@okepread02...
way around.. Were it not for MS's clout, I very much doubt any firm or
individual would either... Near monopolies tend to bend folks attiudes..
While I've been happy to beta test for someone, without pay as such,
I sure as hell didnt pay to do it:-)
Your inference is erroneous and unfounded.
Actually, I pay *nothing* to use the production software that comes in my
MSDN Universal Subscription (nor does anybody else), and I have access to
most of that list from the MSDNAA subscription we have at the college. So,
|
Subscription? sounds to me as if someone is paying somewhere..
Ahh, at college, perhaps you should ask the dean and chapter if they are
paying for that universal subscription:-)
| Quote: | I'm not paying anybody
anything to mess around with the betas that are included. BTW, I'm under
no
obligation to submit any test, or otherwise, reports either.
I seem to recall a few people I've spoken to saying how much [thousands] it |
cost them or their firms to subscribe to MS's MSDN.. And there are a good
few who were less than pleased to have MS demand their domain's be handed
over to MS if they included the words windows or xp in them, under penalty
of
being given a corporate legal kicking if they didnt comply...
| Quote: | As I said to Bud, to each his own.
|
Yeah, those who wish to work for MS are always happy to support it:-) As are
most of those who work for MS.. Now of course, if an enron type situation
should
occur, it might be an altogether different kettle of fish in the supporting
dept:-)
Thos who just find them selves having to use their software are sometimes
less
than pleased to find they get hacked due to buggy software, loopholes in
security as far down the food chain as mediaplayer scripts.. and having to
endlessly go online to download hotfixes and patches. or wait for that
amazing FREE cd to roll in the door...
Cheers,
RD
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rstlne
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 1:21 am Post subject: Re: AMD future |
|
|
| Quote: | Quick, fill me in. What is the evil empire up to? Microsoft is trying
to make a reasonable profit by selling software that works fine for
the vast majority of users. They have a vision of what they would like
to see the world do with computers and have Microsoft play a critical
role. Reasonable for any corporation. Ever since Delaware sold us out,
corporations exist for the benefit of the corporation***.
|
It's probably more along the lines of they are making HUGE HUGE HUGE profits
for software that would usually be considered crappy with the exception that
that it's the standard so that's just what we use. MS bundles every
"additional" peice of software with their OS. So they of course say that
Internet Explorer, Media Player, and many many other utilities are free.
Once all the competition is fully gone then you will probably see that this
"Free" label goes away too. Many of the other "web browsers" are considered
crap because they dont display things correctly but if you dig into why it's
not displayed properly it's USUALLY because so many webpages are written
with microsoft software and it doesnt follow the strict guidelines to HTML
Coding. Intersting that their browser supports incorrect syntax webpages.
Lets not forget about microsoft buying out competition only so it can close
the divisions down.
Now look at the big picture. Microsoft has serious investments in IBM, in
APPLE, and in many many other top companys out there. They are slowly
entering the hardware market and when the xbox2 comes out it's going to have
their own processor, with their own software. Now that xbox2 is what most
of us feel that the entire microsoft movement is about.
| Quote: | Open source is fine. But you something, it leads to real headaches.
When someone calls me up to ask why something is working funky, at
least I don't have to ask what they've done to their kernel. Sure,
there are enough versions of Windows to drive me crazy. What do you
think it's going to be like for help desks when everyone is
recompiling and changing stuff? Just great. RedHat 9? and you did what
to the kernel? And you recompiled what?
|
Yea, This can be a serious problem with OSDev. The idea is much better
however. If a user says I installed sp2 for winxp and now my network isnt
working then what are you going to do, Rewrite the faulty software (yeh like
you'll know).. OSDev allows everyone to see everything and that should lead
to more stable Operating systems. I belive that if Open Source OS's become
mainstream that we will see them being hack'd just as much as microsoft is
but probably with less damage per hack/exploit.
| Quote: | --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
***
You want to talk about evil empires. Until corporations were formed,
folks polled money, made profits, and took a big risk that they were
scr**ed if ventures failed. Then came the Dutch East India Company,
the world's first corporation. With this magic, folks raised even more
money, but the risks shifted to everyone else. If it failed, the
corporate officers were protected. In exchange for this tremendous
boon, the Corporate Charter was issued by the government and one
requirement was that the corporation operate in a way that benefited
society.
And that is the way it stayed, until the state of Delaware realized a
great new way to make money. They would issue corporate charters, but
without that nasty requirement that corporations benefit the public.
That's why everything is incorporated in Delaware. No burdensome
social requirements, and everyone else had to follow suit. So, when
you hear someone say that corporations only are responsible to the
shareholder, that is true. Now. Thank Delaware. |
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rstlne
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 1:23 am Post subject: Re: AMD future |
|
|
| Quote: | Never mind the MS dislike, I've never seen the need to PAY anyone in order
to do THEIR beta or alpha testing for them, in my view it should be the
other
way around.. Were it not for MS's clout, I very much doubt any firm or
individual would either... Near monopolies tend to bend folks attiudes..
While I've been happy to beta test for someone, without pay as such,
I sure as hell didnt pay to do it:-)
Cheers,
RD
|
Microsoft gave me a free copy of Plus! and a free copy of Win98 for doing
the beta testing.. I thought that was pretty *** sweet. I got out of the
group after that and really wish I woulda kept doing it. |
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dgk
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 1:35 am Post subject: Re: AMD future |
|
|
On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 18:42:52 +0000 (UTC), "RD" <rd@dragon.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Hi Peter,
"Peter van der Goes" <p_vandergoes@mars.cox.pluto> wrote in message
news:YDCEb.15787$HQ.14212@okepread02...
"Never anonymous Bud" <newskat@katxyzkave.net> wrote in message
news:9485uvcm841n6r7tqsolbj3011upumgcjj@4ax.com...
Some of prefer NOT to pay to run beta (OR alpha) software,
and help MS get bigger and nastier.
To each his own, Bud.
I assume from your characterization of MS that you've never had the
pleasure
of dealing with Oracle Corporation.
Never mind the MS dislike, I've never seen the need to PAY anyone in order
to do THEIR beta or alpha testing for them, in my view it should be the
other
way around.. Were it not for MS's clout, I very much doubt any firm or
individual would either... Near monopolies tend to bend folks attiudes..
While I've been happy to beta test for someone, without pay as such,
I sure as hell didnt pay to do it:-)
|
Was someone being asked to pay to beta test? I guess I missed that. I
like playing with MS Beta software so I can get an idea of where
programming is headed but no, I wouldn't pay for it.
Or is that just some clever talk that the software is so unready that
it is like beta? I don't find that. The OS works fine. The apps work
fine. For me. Maybe others have problems but stuff works for me. |
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Peter van der Goes
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 3:57 am Post subject: Re: AMD future |
|
|
"RD" <rd@dragon.net> wrote in message
news:brvgrc$s9s$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
| Quote: | Hi Peter,
"Peter van der Goes" <p_vandergoes@mars.cox.pluto> wrote in message
news:YDCEb.15787$HQ.14212@okepread02...
Never mind the MS dislike, I've never seen the need to PAY anyone in order
to do THEIR beta or alpha testing for them, in my view it should be the
other
way around.. Were it not for MS's clout, I very much doubt any firm or
individual would either... Near monopolies tend to bend folks attiudes..
While I've been happy to beta test for someone, without pay as such,
I sure as hell didnt pay to do it:-)
Cheers,
RD
Your inference is erroneous and unfounded. |
Actually, I pay *nothing* to use the production software that comes in my
MSDN Universal Subscription (nor does anybody else), and I have access to
most of that list from the MSDNAA subscription we have at the college. So,
I'm not paying anybody
anything to mess around with the betas that are included. BTW, I'm under no
obligation to submit any test, or otherwise, reports either.
As I said to Bud, to each his own. |
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BF
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 5:24 am Post subject: Re: AMD future |
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|
Go for it. AMD isn't going anywhere and you won't be missed by AMD or
us. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
"The Spectre" <TSpectre@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:4g9Eb.14022$6t6.7645@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
| Quote: | Hey guys just want to get some feed back. My last 3 comouters have
all been
AMD home builts but my next one may not be. I will be building a new
computer to replace my aging 2200+ and I have to say unless
something
fantastic happens its gonna be Intel inside.
No one needs 64 bit computing
The intel P4 overclocks like mad
A 1Gz+ gap is getting harder and harder for AMD to overcome
New P4's will have added instructions
P4 front side bus is bigger
Most benchmarks show P4 ahead
Finally, upcomming Prescott on reduced die size
I want to stay with AMD but anyone know something I don't?
|
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J.Clarke
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 6:11 am Post subject: Re: AMD future |
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|
On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 15:57:57 -0600
"Peter van der Goes" <p_vandergoes@mars.cox.pluto> wrote:
| Quote: |
"RD" <rd@dragon.net> wrote in message
news:brvgrc$s9s$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
Hi Peter,
"Peter van der Goes" <p_vandergoes@mars.cox.pluto> wrote in message
news:YDCEb.15787$HQ.14212@okepread02...
Never mind the MS dislike, I've never seen the need to PAY anyone in
order to do THEIR beta or alpha testing for them, in my view it
should be the other
way around.. Were it not for MS's clout, I very much doubt any firm
or individual would either... Near monopolies tend to bend folks
attiudes..
While I've been happy to beta test for someone, without pay as such,
I sure as hell didnt pay to do it:-)
Cheers,
RD
Your inference is erroneous and unfounded.
Actually, I pay *nothing* to use the production software that comes in
my MSDN Universal Subscription (nor does anybody else),
|
So let's see, how is it that you've managed to get an MSDN Universal
Subscription for free when the rest of us have to pay 2600 bucks for it?
| Quote: | and I have
access to most of that list from the MSDNAA subscription we have at
the college. So, I'm not paying anybody
anything to mess around with the betas that are included. BTW, I'm
under no obligation to submit any test, or otherwise, reports either.
As I said to Bud, to each his own.
|
--
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
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Jerry McBride
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 7:35 am Post subject: Re: AMD future |
|
|
The Spectre wrote:
| Quote: |
"Wes Newell" <w.newell@SOSverizon.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.12.18.06.52.10.609158@SOSverizon.net...
On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 22:40:48 -0500, The Spectre wrote:
Hey guys just want to get some feed back. My last 3 comouters have all
been
AMD home builts but my next one may not be. I will be building a new
computer to replace my aging 2200+ and I have to say unless something
fantastic happens its gonna be Intel inside.
So build your Intel system and go away.
No one needs 64 bit computing
yep, and in the late 70's no one needed 16bit, and in the 80's no one
needed 32bit. Wise up.
No YOU WISE up! There is almost ZERO 64 bit software available and by the
time MS releases a 64 bit OS and vendor re-compile or write 64 bit
software it will be 2 years and time to upgrade again!
|
You don't get out much do you? In case you haven't noticed, microsoft
windows isn't the only os out here. In the linux world, 64 bit software is
as common a commodity as 32 bit sofware...
--
******************************************************************************
Registered Linux User Number 185956
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&safe=off&group=linux
Join me in chat at #linux-users on irc.freenode.net
This email account no longers accepts attachments or messages containing
html.
7:43pm up 80 days, 36 min, 7 users, load average: 0.10, 0.05, 0.01 |
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Napalm
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 11:29 am Post subject: Re: AMD future |
|
|
| Quote: |
Care to cast your mind back to the time before Windows?
how the media went into a frenezy of the 'bloated' size
of MS Dos 4? And were only partially satisfied when
MS Dos6 arrived, only to find it had to be 'updated'
to remove the code MS stole from Stacker for drive
compression:-) But at least, stolen code and all it
ran on machines that couldnt do more than 30MHz,
with 1 or 2 megs of ram, on hard drives of less than
40Mb, and did just fine for all sorts of purposes,
from bookkeeping to comms. And it didnt cost £200
either:-) Funny thing is the academic community had
been doing just fine on JANET before windows,
and the WWW:-) So had big business, and we
didnt have spam comming out of our ears:-) Or
have to pay some more to try and stop it..
|
Gosh, I remember when MS-Dos 6.1 was released, got it on a cover FLOPPY disk
and installed it onto a 386SX33 with 2mb ram and a 20mb HD!!!!
Times have changed.
Napalm
--------
AMD Athlon XP 2500+
MSI KT6 Delta mobo
512mb Ram
2 * 40GB seagate HD
Asus GF FX5200 Magic (128MB) |
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stacey
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 12:50 pm Post subject: Re: AMD future |
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dgk wrote:
| Quote: |
I notice that the only major corporation not giving tons of money to
politicians was Microsoft.
|
LOL. I guess you missed where they were lobbying the US gov to put pressure
on the EU for the anti-trust suit they have against MS?
--
Stacey |
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